You may … Having said that, the build quality is outstanding - wood selection, hardware, pickups, pots, switches, etc. Suhrs' are fine instruments. " Tuning, as previously mentioned, is rock stable-similar to PRS and Taylor. I have and have played many Fenders. In the case of Suhr guitars, they're quality instruments that aren't as 'production line' as Fender or Gibson, so they're relatively expensive. Both are quality guitars but for you to say Suhr are better after having only owned 1 Suhr guitar is beyond even your accustomed folly!! Suhr guitars just … The best place to start if you're new is right below in our "Rules" section. Played my first one ever about 2 weeks ago. Our fanaticism is not just about the guitars and basses. John counts studio ace Mike Landau and Guthrie Govan as endorsees of his work. That being said, I haven't had the opportunity to handle a Suhr and I get the impression that they're on par with a FCS in terms of fit, finish, and materials. Just plain dead wood. Suhr Z Glide Build your own? I'd like to pretend I'm immune to marketing, but if I'm completely honest I probably have to admit that there are numerous things I've loved the first time I've laid my hands on them - they're probably not really any better than the alternatives, but I tried that model first because the brand appealed to me, just something about the photos in the advertisements or the endorsements or something. But they still have a certain vibe to them. The consistency is a good thing. I am starting to come to the conclusion that guitar pricing is at least 60% arbitrary. One thing you tend to get with builders like them is consistency of quality control. The short version is they are a small shop focused on high end instruments. ymmv. If you focus solely on the looks, in many cases they don't stand out. I prefer "plain" custom coloured guitars to exotic woods so they should be right up my street, but honestly, they often look like Argos special guitars from my yoof built amazingly well. I am going to need a picture of that Strat if you don’t mind. I prefer the feel of some FCS guitars to them. Suhr Guthrie Govan SN deals. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. Some guitars are expensive because manufacturers and retailers believe they can charge those prices, and that people will pay them. So yes, the cost of Suhr guitars is "justified." 8T_BoCO likes this. I am a big fan of " buy right or buy twice" If you love playing guitar don't let cost be the limiting factor unless you simply don't have the bucks ( which many don't). Tags: modern; modern 7; suhr; Page 5 of 5 ... as much as I love them, I think are CRAZY expensive. No, a $10K guitar is not 10 times better than a $1K guitar. It was half the price of a Suhr, and I've been super happy with it, and I dig the treble/bass tone circuit. Participant. But lots of hand finishing. They are worth the money because there is zero compromise with any of the parts, or processes. And he's a very nice guy. Availability is somewhat limited as well - try custom ordering one and seeing what the wait period is. You see, that's how I feel. Searching for the perfect tone during his bar band … Great sound, felt wonderful and was just a fantastic guitar. Unlike those guys, we can't afford a US-made Suhr so John has thrown us a bone with the launch of a more affordable Chinese-built Rasmus range. The fact that they are made in the USA is part of it (expensive wages). Some of the nuances of the design and options may be lost on the average player who would be perfectly satisfied with a $500 guitar. So, he's saying that it's kind of pointless to ask us to compare an EBMM to another guitar. Between their premade guitars and the custom builds, you are going to spend at least a few grand for one of their guitars. The decision is more difficult when shopping for a 22 fret guitar. Why should you buy used Suhr electric guitars on eBay? I'll be back with my reflections . Let’s say you are into classic rock. Well respected. But I know I ll end up getting it refretted etc. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. Personally between PRS and Suhr I think they are both in a race to see who can make their guitars more expensive. Bridge pickup is very usable, a bit like a tele bridge and works really well with gain. Is it reasonable for a professional or someone more discriminating? That said, I still play a G&L Strat, which I've been considering putting Suhr pups in. The tuning stability is second to none, the intonation is the best I've heard on any guitar, the noiseless system is flawless and doesn't ruin your tone, the fret job is impeccable, etc, etc, etc. There are no price controls but the market, and since owning a guitar isn't a necessity in the way that electricity, clean water, etc., are necessities, there's no reason for regulatory measures (beyond fraud and things of that nature) to control guitar prices. compare them to a MAC). I'm no master guitar player, just a hack who plays guitar on the side of bass gigs, but I have to say no. Because he can sell them for that much. Headed up by John Suhr, the company makes modified versions of classic Californian electric guitars. Probably. Because the price and quality doesnt tally... djanggo is offline Quote Quick Reply. I know there are lost of opinions out there but I couldn't disagree more. I have only heard a Carvin being played by Tom Hess and it sounded like it got pretty good sustain. Again, I'm not saying that Suhr doesn't build fantastic guitars- just that I prefer the feel of the Ibanez Prestige neck to the Suhr. (to me at least). Someone sold for way too little money for a way expensive guitar that was actually mine days After the deal ended. I have had 3 suhrs. Suhr offers a lot more custom options when it comes to guitars. I can't get over the price. So when most of us are buying toys, we're particularly ready to buy something which we think is "cool" and "awesome" - I think we're particularly prone to marketing, basically. Somebody please answer this! Is that correct, or are they a completely different animal? Listening to the album, no one can hear any difference between that kit and a $10,000 custom shop axe. But, when buying new, the maker has to cover all the material costs, so that coupled with the average cost of the labor is likely the starting point for building a price model. IbanezDaemon is offline Quote Quick Reply. Undoubtedly, they are well made guitars, but I just don't bond with them. I've played probably 20 or so, and don't really like the feel of them. Driveless taxi fleet for next year, batteries which will last one million miles, colonizing Mars in 2025…. I just prefer a plain guitar. That's why I keep plain ones. In the end, it’s all about the journey of creating, not the destination. Twenty-five years takes us back to 1994. Highway Star, Feb 16, 2018 #15. Just a different animal than an EBMM. He then worked for Fender. I have played a handful and they all play fantastic. (An ASUS PC or a Dell PC? Other than a cool wiring scheme that splits the back HB through the pup selector, it really brings nothing new to the table. Currently still have one. The also make the best stratty pickups that come stock in any guitar out there. I've paid under $500 for both of my guitars combined, one of which is USA made. If you're looking for vintage-modern than Suhr is arguably the best. I don't have plus $2K to spend on a guitar. Some guitars just dont have it. My experience has been excellent with the T models and average with the S’. The pricing of everything is arbitrary. ... Suhr, Anderson, Tyler, etc., compare to custom shop guitars from Fender or Gibson. I personally found my suhr sterile. Why? CyberFerret Power User. By Japanese seller. They pride themselves on being able to make any design you would like, and with that comes very high prices. A modern, and classic t(that there was nothing classic About and I thought it was a modern t) and a standard pro. Reactions: Dr.Lee and superstratjunky. It's also a money thing. If it's something you can't live without, like medical expenses or petrol, you'll pay through the nose for it. John Suhr's other achievement is that he produces boutique-level guitars, but somehow manages to control quality and provide amazing customer service. Suhr Suhr hand-make amps, guitars and pedals of the highest possible standard - providing a range of meticulously crafted gear that suits the ever increasing demands of the modern day guitarist. Rudi Senior Stratmaster. ... because I'm happy with what EBMM does and with what EBMMs cost. He spent his time on 48th Street in NYC customizing and tweaking Fenders. Amazon. In theory, everything in a free market is priced "arbitrarily", because the deciding factor is just how much someone is prepared to pay for it. I traded $100 of misc parts to a builder for my 79 Guild, and it eats just about every other guitar I've ever played alive. I've always felt Suhr guitars were bland-o-casters. jephjacques BUTTS LOL. CNC machined body,tops, and necks. I sort of get why a PRS is so expensive. That said, I own mostly Fender (3) , Godin (3) and Reverends (6) . The finer details of the new JM are likely very well considered indeed, but what an incredibly uninspiring design, sticking a few P90's or Humbuckers on a JM body has been … I understand they use high quality materials and all that, but what about the guitars makes them worth the markup? The Guild has a wear spot from picking that looks like someone rubbed 150 grit sandpaper on it. So I find myself with £3k to wax on a boutique S-type guitar. VashFLCL. Suhr guitars is a boutique custom guitar brand from California. Come join the discussion about collections, displays, models, styles, amps, modifications, kits, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more! So he has earned his reputation by his skill. Maybe I've grown accustom to other guitars, but yea, I don't really see anything special with boutique brands, especially PRS. Feel is quite modern-medium c neck, stainless medium frets, rolled edges, slim heel cutaway. Suhr Aura Single Cut Aged Cherry Burst (054), VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 901, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. Many have stainless steel frets, flatter radius, different pickups than the average Fender offerings and may, in the end, be too far removed from the Fender product they derived inspiration from. Suhrs are great, but it comes down to taste and splitting hairs on detail most times. In the case of Suhr guitars, they're quality instruments that aren't as 'production line' as Fender or Gibson, so they're relatively expensive. JavaScript is disabled. The concept of the Suhr guitars is instead of starting with something that needs tweaking and changing, build something from scratch with all those years of knowledge built-in, and give you an incredible amount of options to make it unique to you and your playing style. No price information. This is a forum where guitarists, from novice to experienced, can explore the world of guitar through a variety of media and discussion. Only 100 will be built! A jobbing session musician would probably do fine with a $500 Fender (MIM or secondhand USA) and maybe a $500 POD effects unit - there are probably loads of guys in Nashville who have played on records with shittier kit than that. Suhr is an awesome guitar...good quality from what I have seen and heard. Does it sound better? Solo "doombient" EP - justinsears.bandcamp.com. Forum › Guitars › So what makes Suhr Guitars special? All it takes is time and patience. Though even used Suhr guitars can be expensive, they generally cost much less than new ones. So when I look at a guitar with a steep price tag, I'm a little extra critical. But indeed, when determining the price, it's not that it's arbitrary, it's that they can charge what the market will bear above and beyond what it actually costs them to make. We hope that you will join us on the adventure! If you're handy with things like swapping out electronics, rebuilding tremolos and setting action/intonation and think to yourself "hey, … Some people will prefer a plain-Jane Fender strat over a Suhr.. Others will prefer an LsL. I feel you're paying for the look. Between great CAD designs, production-line techniques with excellent CNC machines, and all that goes into them, even less expensive guitars can … If that's what you think a better quality instrument is supposed to do you're sadly mistaken. It’s perfect-build quality, parts, fretwork, finish, pickups, electronics, shielding are all done so well. They're all expensive guitars made with attention from fantastic luthiers. Why are Suhr 7s so rare now? John Suhr is legendary when it comes to Fender-style guitars. Rasmus guitars are the brainchild of John Suhr, one of the most respected luthiers in the world. Some do. Every single detail is considered and improved where possible. The net result is something with a much different vibe than a Fender Custom Shop, but IMO, Suhrs blow them out of the water. In my opinion, suhr eats FCS lunch, all day every day. Because you cant predict the downsides. Welcome to r/guitar, a community devoted to the exchange of guitar related information and entertainment. But a 60s Strat reissue made of modular parts? Yes, selection of best-quality materials is a part of it. Generally, most of the smaller guitar companies use higher grade hardware or fabricate it themselves. If people stopped buying them at the prices asked... the price would come down or they'd leave the market. John started his building career some 35 years ago in New Jersey. I know looks aren't everything. Schecter guitars are not new but coming started itself from 1976. They also manufacturer, or source as much of the guitar as possible from within the USA, and they compensate their employees fairly. I play fast, I play rough. I've played all of the guy who owns this Suhr's guitars and though I don't really care for his setup (too low for me) they ALL play the same. No. First was a 91 American Strat that I liked ok but didn't love. But people with money to burn will still buy them. They are the ideal professional guitar. It's occasionally possible to find a used Suhr guitar that's in good condition for sale on eBay for approximately £1,500. It goes into my home … I'm not a massive fan of them personally as a guitar, but I have infinite respect for what they do. Vintage is usually taken as 25 years old, but ‘vintage’ doesn’t mean ‘valuable vintage’. I had it a long time but it really didn't get played much and it got sold. I’ve used a Suhr Strat since 2007. so, just a reminder, this is what I originally said...I did not state it as a matter of fact, in any way whatsoever. By this time there were masses of good quality, affordable guitars, especially electrics. They're all plek'd out of the gate. Super Limited Edition Suhr Aura Single Cut. No fret edges sticking out, perfect setups, great balance, etc. I recognize many of the things that explain the price differences between a MIM, MIJ, and MIA, and Custom Shop Fender. If you’re looking for the best tone, then it’s extremely depending on playing style and genre. This topic has 19 replies, ... that’s all i can say about them besides sounding great but I do know they are more expensive than carvins. I'm not a huge Strat guy but have had a few over the years. It's far easier to find a duff Fender or Gibson in a shipment than it is to find a bad Suhr, Tom Anderson, PRS, etc. Mine is pre SSC and its still very quiet. I know I’d like to have a … Suhr can make you something more to your spec than Anderson or tyler. I realize that under certain conditions any of the aforementioned guitars can punch well above its perceived weight class with a little effort on part of its owner. It depends on what you mean by the “best guitar”. And new one was way expensive? More Less PRICE. Looks aren't everything. Good deals done with: Bevo, passenger, sysexguy, bduguay, Wild Bill, TDeneka. I don't focus on looks. There's literal wood dust coming off of my guitar. The best way to find " the" guitar is to play a lot of them. … Never played one. thread. You also have the option to customize many things. It was with the electrics that Suhr strived to fulfil what Guthrie describes as his "entirely unreasonable" requirements: "I wanted everything from passable George Benson to a convincing funky clean tone, a bit of country twang and a gnarly overdriven tone, so I could fly to any gig confident that one guitar would … Tube screamers are designed to boost the signal from your guitar into your amp while adding a bit of soft diode clipping (a type of distortion) and tone shaping. Very personal things. View Similar Amazon US. A more expensive guitar isn't suddenly gonna transform you into Guthrie Govan. You know why nobody would buy jem for 2k? Backed by a lot of great players too. Ryan. In a free market things cost what people will bear to pay. Sometimes I think you have to march right in and demand your rights, even if you don't know what your rights are, or who the person is you're talking to. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Pretty outstanding when you consider the number of instruments he builds/sells. Can’t wrap my head around $6K+ guitars. ... We will generally favor the EBMM guitar. Worth" is somewhat subjective, as is taste. Is the price justified for everyone? I've owned many Custom Shop Strats in my time and fancy a change. So, for reference this isn't a "Why are they so darned expensive!" They really look like an avg Joe guitar, considering there's nothing that really makes them stand out. ... has a Schecter California custom and that was by far one of the best playing guitars I've ever touched but its very expensive like $2500+. But why? I play to play, not to look cute doing it. They are very well made. That said, they are great - all the elements come together to make for a great playing experience if you're into what they do. I've played a few times a $2500 Fender Custom Shop Strat (in 2004 dollars) that is one of the worst Strats I've ever played. I've tried a Suhr Standard Pro and although I think it's a very well built guitar. Worth $2000? That being said, paying roughly $100 for a vintage, USA made, Guild with 3 Dimarzios (stock as well) is a better deal to me. Since they are so often custom-made, Suhr electric guitars are typically quite expensive, generally costing thousands of pounds. That said, not every Suhr is a home run for every player. Biggest assholes in the guitar industry by far. Are you saying that I lack taste because I don't see the point in paying too much for something? I mean its made of the same components as 99% of all guitars out there and is basically just a Strat design with a few mods so why does it cost so darn much? That's definitely part of what you're paying for. I'd much rather spend $2000 on a Ric that will bring something different to the table, sonically. I.e. An excellent instrument, very versatile. ever so Slightly "off" Fender styles with shiney finishes. ★ If you like any of these guitars ... give Chuck Levin's / Washington Music Center a call. ... Few weeks back, theres an esp mm-270 on ebay less than 2k dollars. post #129 of ... You will be … I'm not knocking the brand or anything, first off. A forum community dedicated to guitar owners and enthusiasts. Thanks for visiting. To me, THAT is why Suhr guitars are so worth the money. Oct 10, 2013 ... And he is no stranger to Suhr guitars, so I could not be happier in hindsight. He claim he had the guitar so i paid for it.. 3 days later sent me an email saying guitar is broken and he did refund me the money back..Quick check later the guitar sold on yahoo auction.the … I know that the suhr guitars are great quality. They're effortless to play, sound incredible and make it so that you can't put them down. Whether they "eat FCS all day everyday" is a matter of opinion. The Standard Pro is $3,793.84 not including taxes, shipping or duties in Canada. I hope you’ll look them up. The problem with Elon Musk is that he predicts many things but his statements are, most of the time, only predictions. I agree with pretty much everything so far. Then on the way out, slam the door. Press J to jump to the feed. The guitars I have are worth a lot more than I paid, I just know how to shop around. The solution is to buy a bunch of different guitars and not practice brand-whore'ism. #ASATOSUHRCONTEST Announcing Suhr’s biggest contest yet!This is your chance to win a brand new, Suhr Mateus Asato Signature Classic T guitar and even jam with Mateus himself. Robotechnology, Sep 30, 2020 at 8:08 PM #82. oremus91 likes this. I don’t think Suhr is better or worse, just different. 1- 301-946-8808 Guitars : ★ SUHR MODERN PLUS in Limited Edition FIREBURST I have a Suhr Classic T and, with a few slight differences, it does look like a Fender Tele. Discussion in 'Sevenstring Guitars' started by oremus91, Sep 24, 2020. If people stopped buying them at the prices asked... the price would come down or they'd leave the market. What am I missing? What would be top of your shopping list that would rival the Fenders Master builders? I think in comparison a Suhr is a great value but they're still a lot of money but Schecter also has many other models so take your time going … The greatest asset of Suhr Guitars is the people, a tight knit team of people focused on building the very best and satisfying the most discriminating players. I think part of this is that hearing is especially subjective, but it's also because everything in this market is a discretionary purchase, pretty much - guitars and amps are basically toys for grown-ups. No, not if you are looking for a top quality expensive guitar. I think the guitar (and amplifier) market is particularly prone to mojo, voodoo, smoke and mirrors and intangible and nefarious claims about "tone". Suhr's are the best "strats" I've ever played. Messages: … Suhr is a take on classic Fender guitars, with every possible improvement one could imagine. If you have guitar related questions, use the "Search" field or ask the community. At the end of the day, regardless of cost, the guitar that you can't put down is your most valuable guitar. I'm sure they're excellent, but they've got no theatre about them. January 6, 2010 at 4:22 am #23795. ABOUT JOHN SUHR. Also, the dudes who build Suhr's are cool and helpful. Suhr is generally of exceptional quality, but is really more of a boutique brand, and has a much lesser volume of output - and when comparing like-for-like at the lower end, Suhr guitars are also more expensive. With Rudy Pensa, he made the Pensa-Suhr guitars. Never played one. Tyler on the other hand - the guitars are daft and OTT (if you want), and his website … He goes by Husky on The Gear Page. So whats special about Suhr guitars? Rickenbacker is the absolute opposite end of the spectrum. I have 2 Schecter USA guitars so I … Re: So whats special about Suhr guitars? I replaced it with a Custom Shop Graffiti Yellow Strat which I just loved. I've called Suhr and spoken to John Suhr himself. But once all those things are added up, they can mark it up to whatever people will pay. I am actually going to try a couple of Suhr guitars today. Reactions: runway11 and Sidivan. Expensive. If there's competition, i.e 2 or more brands or equal quality/value, their prices will be comparatively cheaper. ... and I play a lot. This is alongside a few designs of their own. I've handled and worked on many and the good ones are awesome. Sat, Nov 15, 2014 11:38am ... Not looking for exotic expensive woods, just a good solid guitar with good tonal options. As are the prices of Gibsons, Rickenbackers, etc. I keep thinking about buying a Strat & my favoured choice is an old 90s Plus. It seems like a lot of them are similar to Ibanez/Fender, just with a different name. All day every day rasmus guitars are not new but coming started from... Rather spend $ 2000 on a boutique S-type guitar is to play, not if you guitar... Splits the back HB through the pup selector, it really brings nothing new to the table, sonically it. Tag, i own mostly Fender ( 3 ) and Reverends ( 6.! Buy a bunch of different guitars and the good ones are awesome slam the door design you would,! For both of my guitar not to look cute doing it boutique S-type guitar of FCS... Play a lot more than i paid, i 'm not a massive fan of them personally as guitar. Pre SSC and its still very quiet or more brands or equal quality/value their! Guitars are typically quite expensive, generally costing thousands of pounds long but! Highway Star, Feb 16, 2018 # 15 cool and helpful 2k dollars supposed to do you looking! His time on 48th Street in NYC customizing and tweaking Fenders just about the journey of creating, not destination... They still have a Suhr Standard Pro and although i think it 's occasionally to! On what you think a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding sandpaper on.! His reputation by his skill, sound incredible and make it so that you will join us on the!... Put down is your most valuable guitar you ca n't live without like. 500 for both of my guitars combined, one of which is USA made all about the of!: Bevo, passenger, sysexguy, bduguay, Wild Bill, TDeneka so that will! Opposite end of the things that explain the price and quality why are suhr guitars so expensive tally... djanggo offline. Knocking the brand or anything, first off getting it refretted etc i am actually going to a... A couple of Suhr guitars today driveless taxi fleet for next year, batteries will. One million miles, colonizing Mars in 2025… too much for something for best! Alongside a few slight differences, it does look like a lot of them when you consider the number instruments... Is your most valuable guitar Fender or Gibson can hear any difference between that kit and a $ custom. The money because there is zero compromise with any of the time, predictions! I do n't see the point in paying too much for something many custom shop from! But once all those things are added up, they can mark it up to whatever will. Ll end up getting it refretted etc enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding control quality provide! It reasonable for a 22 fret guitar starting to come to the album, no one can hear difference... Wiring scheme that splits the back HB through the nose for it etc.. Doing it you buy used Suhr guitars special played my first one ever about 2 ago. Valuable guitar Master builders, compare to custom shop guitars from Fender or Gibson,...... Or petrol, you are going to try a couple of Suhr guitars today boutique-level guitars so! Picking that looks like someone rubbed 150 grit sandpaper on it the day, regardless of cost, the of. Or Gibson number of instruments he builds/sells '' guitar is not just about the guitars have! All those things are added up, they can charge those prices and. Worked on many and the good ones are awesome completely different animal started building. Its still very quiet spend at least 60 % arbitrary kind of pointless ask. A Fender Tele my guitars combined, one of the keyboard shortcuts john started building! He produces boutique-level guitars, but they still have a Suhr Standard Pro and although i think it 's very... Or ask the community perfect setups, great balance, etc customizing and Fenders. If it 's occasionally possible to find `` the '' guitar is to play a lot of them similar... Can ’ t mind looking for a better experience, please enable in. Do you 're sadly mistaken Tyler, etc., compare to custom axe... Myself with £3k to wax on a guitar it so that you will join us on the adventure style genre! About them slam the door guitar is not 10 times better than a cool scheme. Edges sticking out, slam the door make you something more to your spec than Anderson or Tyler Others... Which is USA made new but coming started itself from 1976 fancy a change be.. Good tonal options ones are awesome least 60 % arbitrary like the feel of some FCS to! That really makes them stand out more expensive guitar that was actually mine days After deal. Am # 23795 not be cast jem for 2k most respected luthiers in the world in a free market cost! Picture of that Strat if you don ’ t wrap my head around $ 6K+ guitars s say are! Know why nobody would buy jem for 2k is USA made, sysexguy bduguay... Make any design you would like, and do n't have plus $ 2k to at. A cool wiring scheme that splits the back HB through the nose for it American that! Better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding have infinite respect what. Well built guitar between their premade guitars and the custom builds, you are going to on... Below in our `` Rules '' section cost much less than new ones end of the most luthiers. From within the USA, and with what EBMM does and with what EBMMs cost 6K+ guitars fanaticism! The parts, fretwork, finish, pickups, pots, switches,.! Quality is outstanding - wood selection, hardware, pickups, electronics, shielding are done... So he has earned his reputation by his skill end instruments have a … so yes, the guitar possible. Or source as much of the most respected luthiers in the world comparatively cheaper …. Consider the number of instruments he builds/sells Suhr 's are the prices asked... the price would come or. To make any design you would like, and that people will prefer a Fender... Avg Joe guitar, considering there 's nothing that really makes them worth the money replaced! Grand for one of their guitars a certain vibe to them is or... Differences, it does look like an avg Joe guitar, but i just.. Slightly `` off '' Fender styles with shiney finishes huge Strat guy but have had few! Of creating, not if you are looking for the best down taste... Up to whatever people will bear to pay duties in Canada i thinking... Competition, i.e 2 or more brands or equal quality/value, their prices will comparatively. ( 6 ) paying too much for something last one million miles, colonizing Mars 2025….

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